Stop it. You're trying to manipulate me. So is she. Everyone just wants what they care about to be protected. Fuck what I care about. Stay here and he dies, go home and he dies.
Just decide for me. I don't care. And if I did, fuck what I care about.
I trust you'll let me know when I'd be more of a help than a hindrance. You know my position, and can certainly speak with the confidence that you'll have my support.
I'm coming over right away. We'll start talking options, but I don't want to settle on anything until we know more specifics.
Draco, I know that your family's well-being is something you care about more than almost anything. I know it has been difficult to leave them, and I know that your first impulse is to do whatever you can to help your father.
You understand that we'll have to talk through all of your options, but I'm willing to listen to what you want to accomplish, and sort out whether it is feasible. Know that I am concerned about security, yes, but that I am also concerned about your own safety, and believe me, Draco, I would not willingly have you throw yourself to the wolves.
You can talk to me, or yell, or sit there and not say a word, but what I would prefer is if we have a conversation about what you want, and whether we can accomplish it. You are not a prisoner. I will not have you continue to serve the Order at a price you are unwilling to pay. You do have choices, although they will be difficult, and our job right now is to sit down and sort those choices out.
We do not know the details fully beyond your mother's information, which could have been exaggerated due to her emotional state. Furthermore, I am not convinced that you are prepared at the moment to make a permanent decision. It can wait until we learn more. However, you deserve to be heard, and I would like to hear you, if you'll have me.
Either Hermione's right and this is some sort of bluff, and they mean to capture you and torture you until you break, or this is the absolute truth and your father's sold himself for a chance that you're willing to come back and deliberately betray all of us, put his life above the whole revolution.
And either way, there's every reason to think that they would double-cross you as soon as you walk into MLE's hands. Use Veritaserum and Legilimency and any other tactic they can to make certain they've plundered your thoughts and memories completely.
We could Obliviate you but we'd have to do so so completely you would hardly be yourself anymore.
I'm truly sorry, Draco. There's nothing you can do.
There's no way to do it that wouldn't leave traces. Especially when the memories are extensive.
Memory charms can be broken with cruciatus. Don't think for a minute they'd spare you that It takes a long time. You would, however, still be able to answer their questions when they were done.
There'd be no way to tell, with a body. (With a living person it's rather easy to sort out if you know to look, but a body is going to be indistinguishable.)
If we kidnap someone high profile to provide the corpse it'll be more suspicious, however. Shame Strangeweale is already dead, this would've been a good use for him.
Still preferable to providing the living article, though.
Please reassure me you are not under any circumstances going to let him go back. I have seen Truncheon's results. It's very unlikely that anyone in the Order could cast a memory charm powerful enough that Truncheon couldn't break it. It's completely outside the realm of possibility that he would not try. The best-case scenario if he goes back is that he's tortured into madness without giving us away.
If Draco insists on returning, he can't do it alive.
Kidnapping Lucius and Narcissa would be extremely difficult and holding them prisoner even more so.
I might be able to put Lucius into a vulnerable position and let the Order know when to show up, but I don't have any sort of access to Narcissa, and MLE keeps an eye on her -- not ordinarily because she's a hostage, mind you, but simply because she's the wife of a powerful man. And we would need to take them both before either were missed -- I don't think Draco would thank us for saving Lucius, if Narcissa paid the price.
You'd have to take them to Saltash. Even that might not be enough.
But I cannot exclude it as an option. A difficult, costly, and dangerous option, yes, but something we can work through that doesn't involve killing Draco, or turning him over for torture, which are both unacceptable.
Turning over a body in his place also has a great deal of merit.
It's a good idea, Rachel. And it might work, if Draco weren't the product of two of the oldest pureblood families still in existence in Britain.
They'll have a tapestry. Narcissa will have a portrait, maybe more than one. There are ways they can check to determine if he's really dead - and while Narcissa might not have been sure in the case of my brother, or may not have wanted to call attention to the lack of a death date, she'll certainly avail herself of every possible hope of life in Draco's case.
Perhaps, if they're painted by someone who doesn't really know the trade.
Can you see Narcissa Black Malfoy paying for anything less than the best quality?
There could be a number of tapestries. I'm not sure. He would certainly be on the Malfoy one. He might be on the Lestrange one (I've no idea - Hydra, do you know?); I don't think he'd be on the Jugson one. And, of course, he's on the Black tapestry here but that wouldn't matter. I don't think my Aunt Druella has a duplicate, at least I don't recall ever having seen it. In any case, this one would be the master, if she did have a slave, so we could, if necessary, change it here to make the other change. But then, if it's not the same we'd have no way to reconcile the differences.
There are potential complications but the Malfoy tapestry's probably the biggest threat.
He is on the Malfoy one. He's not on the Lestrange tapestry; it only includes Lestranges and those who married Lestranges, and then their offspring. So I'm on it, but not Draco. Other than that he ought to only be on the Black tapestry.
If we do this, we should make it look as incriminating as possible. Make it look like Lucius and Narcissa were both traitors -- secret, unwilling traitors, maybe blackmailed into it through their love for their son. The worse we can make it look for them, the better -- as long as we can get them both away.
If they're fugitives who will be killed on sight by MLE, they'll be less eager to escape from us.
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:28 pm (UTC)When?
Do you think they're bluffing? I mean, is there any possibility?
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:30 pm (UTC)I'm sorry, Draco. There's nothing you can do.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:42 pm (UTC)Say what else you might, your father loves you; I doubt he would want that to happen.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:46 pm (UTC)"We're about to bury your uncle and your Father has agreed to follow him into the grave if you don't come home."
So Father made a deal with the Lord Protector. He does want this to happen.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:52 pm (UTC)Rachel, please find out whatever you can so that we can make a fully informed decision.
Private message to Alice
Date: 2014-06-12 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 04:53 pm (UTC)If he has made a deal, then it is even more certain he is willing.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:00 pm (UTC)Just decide for me. I don't care. And if I did, fuck what I care about.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:08 pm (UTC)I will never apologise for wanting to protect you.
Private Message to Severus
Date: 2014-06-12 06:57 pm (UTC)I trust you'll let me know when I'd be more of a help than a hindrance. You know my position, and can certainly speak with the confidence that you'll have my support.
Private Message to Draco
Date: 2014-06-12 04:58 pm (UTC)Draco, I know that your family's well-being is something you care about more than almost anything. I know it has been difficult to leave them, and I know that your first impulse is to do whatever you can to help your father.
You understand that we'll have to talk through all of your options, but I'm willing to listen to what you want to accomplish, and sort out whether it is feasible. Know that I am concerned about security, yes, but that I am also concerned about your own safety, and believe me, Draco, I would not willingly have you throw yourself to the wolves.
Re: Private Message to Draco
Date: 2014-06-12 05:02 pm (UTC)You're just a liar. Everyone here is a liar.
Re: Private Message to Draco
Date: 2014-06-12 05:15 pm (UTC)You can talk to me, or yell, or sit there and not say a word, but what I would prefer is if we have a conversation about what you want, and whether we can accomplish it. You are not a prisoner. I will not have you continue to serve the Order at a price you are unwilling to pay. You do have choices, although they will be difficult, and our job right now is to sit down and sort those choices out.
We do not know the details fully beyond your mother's information, which could have been exaggerated due to her emotional state. Furthermore, I am not convinced that you are prepared at the moment to make a permanent decision. It can wait until we learn more. However, you deserve to be heard, and I would like to hear you, if you'll have me.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:03 pm (UTC)Either Hermione's right and this is some sort of bluff, and they mean to capture you and torture you until you break, or this is the absolute truth and your father's sold himself for a chance that you're willing to come back and deliberately betray all of us, put his life above the whole revolution.
And either way, there's every reason to think that they would double-cross you as soon as you walk into MLE's hands. Use Veritaserum and Legilimency and any other tactic they can to make certain they've plundered your thoughts and memories completely.
We could Obliviate you but we'd have to do so so completely you would hardly be yourself anymore.
I'm truly sorry, Draco. There's nothing you can do.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:19 pm (UTC)Memory charms can be broken with cruciatus.
Don't think for a minute they'd spare you thatIt takes a long time. You would, however, still be able to answer their questions when they were done.no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:05 pm (UTC)I can talk to Professor Dolohov about how much I could push things.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:23 pm (UTC)I don't mean actually killing Draco. Polyjuice someone, kill them, leave the body on the doorstep of Buckingham.
It might buy some sort of clemency.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:45 pm (UTC)If we kidnap someone high profile to provide the corpse it'll be more suspicious, however. Shame Strangeweale is already dead, this would've been a good use for him.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:53 pm (UTC)That's not
Right. Point.
Private message to Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 05:53 pm (UTC)Please reassure me you are not under any circumstances going to let him go back. I have seen Truncheon's results. It's very unlikely that anyone in the Order could cast a memory charm powerful enough that Truncheon couldn't break it. It's completely outside the realm of possibility that he would not try. The best-case scenario if he goes back is that he's tortured into madness without giving us away.
If Draco insists on returning, he can't do it alive.
Re: Private message to Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 06:00 pm (UTC)He has to realise it isn't possible.
I think he's an intelligent enough person to have already come to that conclusion, despite his current state.
So it's just a matter of letting him process it, and then we can talk about our other options.
Once he gets round to actually opening the door, that is.
Re: Private message to Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 06:11 pm (UTC)I might be able to put Lucius into a vulnerable position and let the Order know when to show up, but I don't have any sort of access to Narcissa, and MLE keeps an eye on her -- not ordinarily because she's a hostage, mind you, but simply because she's the wife of a powerful man. And we would need to take them both before either were missed -- I don't think Draco would thank us for saving Lucius, if Narcissa paid the price.
You'd have to take them to Saltash. Even that might not be enough.
Re: Private message to Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 06:17 pm (UTC)Believe me.
I know.
I will be careful not to raise false hopes.
But I cannot exclude it as an option. A difficult, costly, and dangerous option, yes, but something we can work through that doesn't involve killing Draco, or turning him over for torture, which are both unacceptable.
Turning over a body in his place also has a great deal of merit.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 07:57 pm (UTC)They'll have a tapestry. Narcissa will have a portrait, maybe more than one. There are ways they can check to determine if he's really dead - and while Narcissa might not have been sure in the case of my brother, or may not have wanted to call attention to the lack of a death date, she'll certainly avail herself of every possible hope of life in Draco's case.
And Bellatrix knows that.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 08:07 pm (UTC)The tapestry is harder. Where is it kept? Malfoy Manor?
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 08:33 pm (UTC)Can you see Narcissa Black Malfoy paying for anything less than the best quality?
There could be a number of tapestries. I'm not sure. He would certainly be on the Malfoy one. He might be on the Lestrange one (I've no idea - Hydra, do you know?); I don't think he'd be on the Jugson one. And, of course, he's on the Black tapestry here but that wouldn't matter. I don't think my Aunt Druella has a duplicate, at least I don't recall ever having seen it. In any case, this one would be the master, if she did have a slave, so we could, if necessary, change it here to make the other change. But then, if it's not the same we'd have no way to reconcile the differences.
There are potential complications but the Malfoy tapestry's probably the biggest threat.
And any portraits she has.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 10:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-13 04:02 am (UTC)You can blast people off those tapestries. In fact, it's rather an essential part of that whole tradition.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-13 04:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:35 pm (UTC)That's
That's awful.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:36 pm (UTC)You're just going to let Lucius die, aren't you?Private Message to Sirius and Severus
Date: 2014-06-12 05:37 pm (UTC)So I'll just be over at the shop, then.
It can wait.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 05:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 06:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 07:02 pm (UTC)And they could go to Saltash with Otto Strangeweale.
Private message to Hermione Granger and Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 10:30 pm (UTC)If we do this, we should make it look as incriminating as possible. Make it look like Lucius and Narcissa were both traitors -- secret, unwilling traitors, maybe blackmailed into it through their love for their son. The worse we can make it look for them, the better -- as long as we can get them both away.
If they're fugitives who will be killed on sight by MLE, they'll be less eager to escape from us.
Re: Private message to Hermione Granger and Alice Longbottom
Date: 2014-06-12 10:46 pm (UTC)I can see how that would be a careful path to walk, but certainly possible.
We could try to link them to the Archive destruction. Plant correspondence from Severus and Draco.